YouTube video · UAP Gerb · 2025 (after the Nov 2024 hearing)
The 1948 Aztec, New Mexico UFO Crash Retrieval
Gerb revisits the claim that an intact disc about 100 ft across came down at Hart Canyon near Aztec, New Mexico, on 25 March 1948, with 14 to 16 small bodies recovered. He argues the hoax label rests on Silas Newton's 1953 fraud conviction, which concerned an oil-detecting device, not the crash, and on a sting the government itself ran. Local witnesses, an anonymous Walker AFB airman, Sarbacher's 1950 remark, and FBI and Army CID files keep the case alive; the recovery team and scientists come from Steinman's unsourced 1986 book, and Gerb's links to other cases are his reasoning.
Timeline
On the recordWitness testimonyAlleged / one person's word
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Mar 1948
Hart Canyon crashDisc said to come down intact NE of Aztec with 14 to 16 bodies aboard.
Nov 1949
Eric Wang brought inSaid to join propulsion work on the craft; anonymous source.
1952
Cahn's True exposeJ.P. Cahn's article becomes the standard debunk.
1986
Steinman and Stevens bookUFO Crash at Aztec names the IPU team and scientists without cited sources.
2012
The Aztec IncidentThe Ramseys find Bureau of Reclamation heavy-equipment records in the area.
The claims, checked
On the record (5)
Army CID and the FBI ran a sting on Newton in September 1950, and the FBI has released 289 pages on him with more than 100 withheld.FBI and CID records.analysisFBISilas Newton
An FBI memo of 22 Mar 1950 reports three saucers recovered in New Mexico with 3 ft beings.The Hottel memo; its link to Aztec is Gerb's reasoning.analysisFBIThe Guy Hottel memo (FBI, 22 March 1950)
Robert Sarbacher told Wilbert Smith in 1950 that Scully's book was substantially correct.Smith's notes record Sarbacher's words.analysisWilbert Smith's Top Secret memo (21 November 1950)Robert Sarbacher
FOIA responses show an Army Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit existed in some form.FOIA replies to Hall, Steinman and Good; critics read IPU as an administrative "Input Processing Unit".analysisArmy FOIA responsesThe 'Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit' report (22 July 1947)
Bureau of Reclamation heavy equipment was in the area at the time.Records found by the Ramseys; its use in the recovery is their inference.analysisScott RamseySuzanne Ramsey
Witness testimony (8)
Valentin Archuleta saw a wobbling disc strike the cliff side.Named local witness.firsthandValentin Archuleta
Doug Noland saw the craft on the mesa and its occupants before the military sealed the site.Named local witness.firsthandDoug Noland
Manuel Sandoval of the Cuba, NM police saw the cordon and recovery activity.Named local witness.firsthandManuel Sandoval
The 767th AC&W radar at El Vado and two other sites tracked the object.Lee Crane's account.secondhandLee Craneradar operators → Lee Crane → told it
Eric Walker said he attended the Wright-Patterson meetings and knew of MJ-12.Walker's own words in a 1987 call recorded by Bill Steinman.firsthandEric A. WalkerMajestic 12
Two to four discs recovered in 1947-48 were studied at Los Alamos and Sandia under Project Supremacy.Andrew Kissner, without named sources.secondhandunnamed sources → person/andrew-kissner → told itJ. Andrew Kissner's statement on the 1947 recoveries (1994)Los Alamos National LaboratorySandia National Laboratories
Aztec and Kingman were real.Nat Kobitz to Ross Coulthart.secondhandperson/nat-kobitz → person/ross-coulthart → told itNat Kobitz
Newton recorded in March 1950 that a top magnetic scientist told him of the recovery and of seven scientists working on it.Wire recording per Gerb; the scientist is unnamed.secondhandmagnetic scientist → person/silas-newton → told itSilas Newton
Alleged / one person's word (6)
An airman at Walker AFB, "George", kept records on about 200 people involved and says fake medical alibis were used.First name only; firsthand but anonymous to the public.anonymousGeorge (anonymous)George → researchers → told it
The craft was recovered by the Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit staging from Camp Hale, with George C. Marshall in charge.Steinman's 1986 reconstruction gives no sources.anonymousWilliam Steinmanunnamed sources → William Steinman → told itThe 'Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit' report (22 July 1947)
Vannevar Bush, Oppenheimer, von Neumann and Bronk examined the craft, and 13 autopsies went into a Sign report.Steinman, without cited sources.anonymousWilliam Steinmanunnamed sources → William Steinman → told itVannevar BushJohn von NeumannTwining memo and Project Sign
The craft was dismantled at interlocking joints, paralleling Shapiro's account of disassembled craft shipped to labs.The dismantling is Steinman's; the parallel is Gerb's.speculationSumner Shapiro
The 2017 MJ-12 "DIA" document repeating Steinman was meant to muddy the case.Gerb's reasoning; the document's authenticity is disputed.speculationMajestic 12
Dr. Gee may have been Karl Heiland, a GSI founder, Otto Schmitt or John Torrence Tate.Gerb's candidates.speculation
Doesn't hold as stated (1)
Silas Newton's 1953 fraud conviction shows the Aztec story was a hoax.The conviction concerned an oil-detecting device, not the crash, and the government itself ran the sting against Newton.analysisJ.P. Cahn and later debunkersSilas Newton