YouTube video · UAP Gerb · 6 October 2025
Discussing Lockheed Martin Project + "Sub Rosa: Organized Secrecy" Ft. Guests Rob Jones & Kermit
A follow-up to Gerb's Lockheed Martin video and Rob Jones's 28-page paper 'Sub Rosa' on where Lockheed's Kona Blue material went. The stream mixes three kinds of material: a new anonymous Oak Ridge source who says two recovered saucers sit under the lab with DOE intelligence as program manager; public records Kermit and Rob use (Taiclet's $1.6B classified loss, the IR&D rules, the 1986 GAO Burbank audit, Jim Shell's LinkedIn post); and Rob's ownership-chain hypothesis from Lockheed's EIG to Peraton.
Overview
- Anonymous firsthand to Gerb: the Oak Ridge saucers.
- Documents: Taiclet, IR&D rules, GAO 1986, corporate records.
- Hypothesis: Sub Rosa's ownership chain.
On the record
- Lockheed's classified-program loss on earnings calls.
- The 1986 GAO Burbank document-control audit.
- The SI Organization, Vencore and Peraton corporate chain; Cardillo on Peraton's board (2019).
Open questions
- Whether the Oak Ridge source holds up; Gerb withdrew a second Oak Ridge source in June 2026.
Leads to follow
- Jim Shell's LinkedIn post (archive it as a document).
- DOE OICI program records for Oak Ridge.
Timeline
On the recordWitness testimonyAlleged / one person's word
People across the timeline · click a name or a dot
Click a person to follow their thread.
1986
GAO audits Lockheed Burbank document controlAbout 1,500 of 40,000 classified documents unaccounted for across 53 substations.GAO testimony on Lockheed's special-access document control (24 July 1986)
1993
The 'Last Supper' consolidationLockheed with Martin Marietta, Northrop with TRW later, EG&G Special Projects toward AECOM and Amentum.EG&G
2009-11
The Lockheed transfer failsKona Blue and the OAP route both fail; Rob Jones follows where the material went next.Kona Blue (DHS prospective SAP, 2011)
2010-11
Lockheed's EIG becomes The SI OrganizationUnder Veritas Capital; later Vencore, then Peraton (corporate records).
2019
Cardillo joins Peraton's boardFormer DDNI for intelligence integration from about 2009.Peraton (Veritas Capital)
2025
Oak Ridge: two saucersGerb's source, under vetting, saw two saucer-type craft under the lab; DOE OICI is program manager.
Oct 2025
Jim Shell's LinkedIn postAn NRO veteran describes a security control infrastructure in NORTHCOM and SPACECOM since about 2016-18.
The claims, checked
On the record (8)
Lockheed CEO Jim Taiclet reported a $1.6B loss on a classified program and called the technology 'magical, revolutionary, game-changing'.firsthandLockheed Martin earnings calls (cited on the stream)Lockheed Martin Skunk Works
Contractors may bill IR&D of potential interest to DoD; a rule effective January 2023 makes the CEO review and justify the IR&D budget. It was first pushed in 2017 by USD(A&S) Ellen Lord, who also set up the corporate portfolio program and later joined SAIC.DFARS and DoD rule records.analysisKermit (CPA co-host)Lockheed Martin Skunk WorksSAIC
A 1986 GAO review found about 1,500 of 40,000 classified documents at Lockheed Burbank unaccounted for across 53 document-control substations, and estimated 'thousands' of carve-out contracts.firsthandGAO (1986), cited by KermitLockheed Martin Skunk WorksGAO testimony on Lockheed's special-access document control (24 July 1986)
Formerly restricted data needs both the Energy and Defense secretaries to declassify it, not the president alone.analysisKermit (CPA co-host)Atomic Energy Act of 1954
Lockheed's Enterprise Integration Group became The SI Organization under Veritas Capital, then Vencore and Peraton; Robert Cardillo, DDNI for intelligence integration from about 2009, joined Peraton's board in 2019.analysiscorporate records (Rob Jones, Sub Rosa)Peraton (Veritas Capital)Robert Cardillo
Mary Sturtevant was Lockheed VP for government affairs 2006-21, ex-CIA in a joint DS&T and DO office, at BDM on technology transfer and on the NSC under G. W. Bush; she worked with Ryder and was photographed at a 2016 INSA dinner with Brennan and Charlie Allen.analysispublic records (Rob Jones)Mary Sturtevant
AARO's historical report vol. 1 says Herrera spoke of US special forces and an extraterrestrial craft; Herrera's memorandum for record says neither.analysisAARO Historical Record Report, Volume 1 (March 2024)Sumatra, 2009: Michael Herrera's octagonal craft
Perry and Deutch went on to SAIC's board; 4 of the 12 SAPOC and Senior Review Group members had SAIC ties (Owens among them) and others MITRE ties (Kaminski, Linton Wells).analysispublic bios (Rob Jones)Special Access Program Oversight Committee (SAPOC) and Senior Review GroupSAICDeputy Secretary of Defense memo creating the SAPOC (5 January 1994)
Witness testimony (3)
A 'security control infrastructure' in NORTHCOM and SPACECOM since about 2016-18 blocks the combatant commands from data, even unclassified allied space-catalogue data; Guardians who object are labelled problematic; funds are misappropriated; he links it to UAP at 'medium confidence'.Named public statement; not yet archived as a document.firsthandJim Shell (NRO veteran), LinkedIn, Oct 2025Immaculate Constellation
At SAIC in the early 1990s she found the contract status files for very large contracts empty, was harassed out of the company, and her recruiter later turned up in a CIA personnel database.firsthandDenise McKenzie (public testimony)SAIC
He holds a photo of a 3-4 ft grey 'alien' mannequin, like the Santilli figure, behind glass in the cafeteria line at Dugway's West Desert Test Center.Meaning unknown.firsthandDugway Proving Ground (Utah)
Alleged / one person's word (7)
A science installation under Oak Ridge National Laboratory holds two recovered saucer-type craft, which the source saw firsthand up close; small programs there study the craft's 'skin', not the shell or metal.Gerb: some of the source's other information checked out. In June 2026 he withdrew a second Oak Ridge source as untrue.anonymousunnamed source (said to be a former Oak Ridge employee; still being vetted) → UAP Gerb → told it
The DOE Office of Intelligence and Counterintelligence is the program manager for the Oak Ridge work; MITRE and Battelle are probably involved.The source gave the OICI role as fact and MITRE and Battelle as a guess.anonymousunnamed source → UAP Gerb → told itDOE Office of Intelligence and Counterintelligence (OICI)The MITRE CorporationBattelle Memorial Institute
Davis's '1989 directive to take materials back from contractors' more likely moved hardware to FFRDCs (MITRE, Aerospace, Oak Ridge, Sandia, Los Alamos), which hold the keys and parcel out need-to-know work to corporate special-programs directors.speculationThe MITRE CorporationThe Aerospace Corporation
Jim Shell's control infrastructure is Immaculate Constellation's filter.Gerb and Kermit; Kirkpatrick was at SPACECOM in 2018.speculationImmaculate Constellation
After the 2009 and 2010-11 transfers failed, the Lockheed material left with the Enterprise Integration Group and followed it to Peraton.Rob Jones's 28-page Substack paper 'Sub Rosa'.speculationRob Jones (co-host)The Lockheed craft offered to AAWSAPPeraton (Veritas Capital)
Gaffney did not block the transfer.Gerb and Rob read the denial as program protection.anonymousRob Jones (co-host)a senior CIA officer → Rob Jones → told itGlenn GaffneyThe Lockheed craft offered to AAWSAP
A football-field-sized black triangle hovered over a national lab that is usually not mentioned.Details pending.anonymousviewer 'M' (firsthand to Gerb) → UAP Gerb → told it